February 21, 2004

• I'm sorry, but what exactly is the difference between Marketing and Religion again? Someone tried to tell me about it once, but it just doesn't stick.
• so, how long until we're seeing kids wearing something that parodies this crud? that seems to be the thing to do with christian paraphenelia. you shove a jesus fish in my face, someone counters with a darwin fish. i really don't get the "witness" cards, either. please, religious people, keep it to yourselves. if i wanted to know more about your beliefs i'd ask you. we don't need you to stand on the corner and recruit with propaganda. (it's called religion if it's on a large scale, but when it's a small group it's called a cult...) at any rate we can at least be thankful that the characters from this movie won't be marketed in a happy meal.
• Sadly, christs' giving attitude is no longer a part of the mainstream christian attitude. It seems to me that all of the "very religious" people that I know don't really know how to be humble. They are, to a person, consumers of the first level. I'm sure that they give an extra dollar at christmas or their church "adopts" a village in Mexico and builds a few new hovels every 10 years or so. Whoohoo. They are also, to a person, the most bigoted, racist, hate filled people. Horrible. The most humble, respectful, giving, loving people that I know have nothing to do with organized religion. I wonder why the difference?
• From the reuters article: "This is a way to express yourself in a non-commercial way, which ultimately is what personal beliefs are," Biggs said. "Personal beliefs are not commercial." Huh? What the hell is he talking about? Well, no one ever said that cognitive dissonance ever bothered a christian.
• Easy with the easy generalizations, y'all.
• Jeezus. The hype over this film is ridiculous. Don't people already know this story?
• Good point, goetter. It's getting a little harsh in here. That being said, while there are innumerable examples of organized religion Missing The Point, I have to hand Mel Gibson a rotting banana for lowering the tone, and not in a good way.
• Removing the anti-Semitic debate, from the limited things I've seen or read, this movie's focus seems to be on 'historical' accuracy. Such as using Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic languages. That being said, this website just seems strange to me. Not being religious myself, maybe I'm missing something. The website is just so shiny, flashy and sexy. Hmm...maybe I just need more coffee.
• Too bad were free and have too hear this crud.
• "This is a way to express yourself in a non-commercial way" = religious ritual crap, imho. Christ is based on faith through grace in the Church age.
• GrizAdams I think you mean biblical accuracy. As I understand it there are several conflicting reports of the events of the day in the bible. Let's also not forget that the bible is full of metaphor and just plain fantasy. Using aramaic is no gaurantee of historical accuracy. For the same reason that wearing kilts was no gaurantee of historical accuracy in Braveheart.
• I'm as openminded as the next guy, but this seems only crass and commercial; intended solely for shock value and to instigate controversy. Say, did anybody else see the full page ad in the NYT yesterday encouraging Mel... courtesy of Jews for Jesus? We're living in strange times.
• 'JESUS' NAIL SALE Holy Triclavian heresy, Batman! [sound of dropping jaw hitting floor] Collectible, presumably limited-edition Jesus paraphenalia. I mean, Jesus
• CellarFloor: Agreed. Biblical accuracy would've have been more precise wording than 'historical' accuracy. Since I don't believe in any of it, I guess I shouldn't even use the term "accurate", but I was trying to be respectful those who do believe. And while I'm pretty sure I won't see the movie, I do think it's kind of interesting that he's using those languages.
• What's the matter, goetter? You don't think is an attractive piece of jewelery? Just a silly monkey question, is any of the buck from the merch going to charity?
• hmmmmmm, I may just get a new palm piercing.......
• I'm just crushed that I didn't think of it first. And reading mel's last link, I can't help but hear that exceptionally annoying narrator from Merchant-Ivory film previews reading the Isaiah 53:5 sidebar sound bite. [turn up the reverb slightly] DYING... WAS HIS REASON FOR LIVING. /manifesting monkey stigmata
• Please don't criticize a work until you've seen it. It makes you look foolish. Please don't make sweeping generalizations about large groups with vastly different populations. It makes you look craven. Please don't act outraged about tacky merchandising tie-ins. It makes you look like you've had your head in the sand.
• To be fair, it looks like all merchandising is unrelated to the film itself -- this Bob Siemens guy has just stolen the name (which of course can't be trademarked, so it's a free-for-all) to appeal to fans of the film and/or Christians. I take it back: there's a link to sharethepassionofchrist on the "Resources" page. So it does suck.
• Gibson has accused a lot of people -- including me -- of plotting against his controversial new "The Passion of the Christ." Is it brilliant marketing, or serious paranoia?
• I like the fact that the film is in Aramaic - for a mainstream American movie this is pretty groundbreaking (will it be as successful as Shatner's pioneering Filmed-In-Esperanto masterpiece Incubus, though), and I move I applaud, largely. Filming it in a language that none of the actors are fluent in, though, will surely just lead to badly delivered lines and deadened acting. (The trailer certainly doesn't look too promising). I can't comment on the supposed anti-semitism of the film, in that I haven't seen it, obviously. I wouldn't be surprised though, given Mel Gibson's film history, if it turns out that the queer English aristocracy actually killed Christ.
• this frenzy of movie-based consumerism seems like an odd tribute to a man whose philosophy was based upon giving, not consuming needlessly. I think you've confused Jesus of Nazareth with Supply Side Jesus. It's a common mistake.
• Dizzy: I'm only speaking for myself here (and agree with your points). I think the general public is very used to tacky merchandising tie-ins. Maybe it's because there's not a Jesus "blockbuster" very often (what was the last one? Last Tempation of Christ?), but for whatever preconceived notions I have, I would expect a religious movie to be above that. I thought Mel Gibson's original intent in making this movie wasn't to create a hit movie (though, it clearly will be now), but rather to tell a story that's very personal and important to him. I think that message gets diluted when you start selling coffee cups. After viewing this website, the whole thing feels exploitive. People are making money off of the death of Christ and that seems...unusual to me. (Yes, I'm naive!) :-)
• all movies are marketed with dumb crap such as jewllery, books, etc, so this isn't surprising in any way. but given the subject matter and gibson's own hard line beliefs, it does come off, oh i dunno, a tad... blasphemous. jesus in the temple and all that rot... re: homunculus' link - mel can stuff it, his father is as much a public figure as he is, what with going on international tv and denying the holocaust and whatnot. i don't know if he's paranoid or not but he's been marketing his ass off, running from church group to church group, gathering as much support as possible with those who are like minded, and now he seems to not want to deal with any outside criticism... well suck it up buddy, you put yourself, your beliefs, your movie, and your crazy old coot of a father out there which means you're all fair game. personally i won't be seeing the film, not because any part of it may or may not offend me, but because after all those LoTR movies, i've had it up to here with fantasy films for at least a year or two.
• Now, if Janet Jackson had the nail piercing she wouldn't have gotten into so much trouble.
• Oops, sorry. I meant to say "I think they've confused Jesus of Nazareth with Supply Side Jesus."
• I do love that Supply Side Jesus cartoon.
• Plastic has a good post on the Christian response to "The Davinci Code."
• If Jesus's purpose in being born was to die, why does anyone blame the Jews, or the Romans, or whomever? Maybe his dad was to blame?
• (off topic) Jesus walks into a hotel, slaps down three nails, and says, "Can you put me up for the night?" (/off topic) Seriously, films like this are just preaching to the choir. It won't change anyone's mind, and may end up alienating those whose minds are not made up. Maybe if these Xtians paid more attention to the man's teachings, and less to the lurid details of his death, those "Jebus croaked for your pathetic soul" t-shirts wouldn't have the same appeal. Oh, well. "Always look on the bright side of life" (walks off whistling)
• If Jesus's purpose in being born was to die, why does anyone blame the Jews seriously, you'd think they'd be grateful to the jews instead.
• zedediah - one of my favorite jokes. i think, as depicted in a classic episode of seinfeld, that to make the joke (and laugh at it) you have to be a member though. i guess like anything else if you can't laugh about it a little here and there, you might want to step back and ask yourself why you take it so seriously. as an aside, i've found that the deeply religious people aren't the ones who get all pissy with anything that pokes fun at or questions their religion. they're secure enough to think deeply about why they believe, look at the opposing evidence, and still feel that their faith is justified. i may not agree with them, but respect them for testing their own faith and coming through unscathed, holding true to their cause. it's the ones that are insecure - latching on to god or jesus or wicca or whatever to make themselves feel more important and included more than anything else - those are the people who view anything questioning their beliefs as a personal attack, and respond with vehemence and hate rather than the values their oh-so-important religion teaches them to hold. they make their belief so integral a part of their self-identity that questioning their faith amounts to questioning their own self-worth, and they can't handle this. if they had a sense of self-worth outside of the fronts they put up, they'd be secure in their beliefs and stronger for them, not just an insecure person using the bible as a shield against the world. these seem to be the ones that at one extreme stand on college campuses screaming hate at the homosexuals (actual quote i once heard thrown at a gay couple: "jesus loves you, but he commands us to kill you to save you from hell"). the ones in the middle just push for nothin' but jesus at school, marriage = straights-only amendments, and at a milder end the ones who buy tacky jesus jewelry and dare you to ask them why. i can do without these types. (of course, to be as fair, there are also people who don't fit the above, but just like to wear their beliefs on their shirtsleeves. some get their favorite team's jersey, some put a "in lovin' memory of #3" on the back of their car, and others buy the "jesus nail" pendant and don't see anything wrong with that.)
• caution live frogs- thanks for the advice, but I actually am a "member", although many may disagree. Anyway, you're right on the money with the secure/insecure index. When the experience of religion, spirituality or faith is reduced to supporting a team mascot (Go, Jesus!!), nothing useful will come out of it.
• I"m not a member, but I do admire those Christians who don't wallow in their "saved" state, but who continue to try to perfect themselves - i. e., be more Jesus like. The Jesus presented in the New Testament isn't anything like the self-satisfied folks who are convinced that anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do is evil. If they were trying to be like Jesus, they'd all be a lot more alike - less judgemental, less afraid of alternate views, and more able to care about mankind in general. Our own fx8mulder comes very close to my benchmark for Christians, and I've known others who could debate without being freaked out by disagreement. Their willingness to put their beliefs on the line allowed me to test my own. The commercial aspects of the Gibson film don't really bother me a lot, nor does the fact that he attempted to put his own passion into the movie. And, while I'd kinda like to hear the various languages spoken, I doubt that I'll ever see the thing, so there's no way I can judge its value. Who knows, maybe someday it'll be a cult classic, with folks showing up for the noon screening, wearing robes or armor, acting out the parts in front of the screen.
• heh, yah. the jesus christ horror show... but don't some folk already do that, those reenactments at easter and whatnot, dragging crosses thru' the street etc.
• oh, i didn't assume you weren't in the group, zedediah. using the joke pretty much was a dead giveaway that you're in... and that you don't take it so seriously that you can't laugh at it. just saying, for the record, that it's one of those jokes that i wouldn't feel comfortable making if i wasn't in the group (kinda like how casually using the N word to refer to a black person will generally get you in trouble only if you're not also a black person). anyway...
• I don't see what's wrong about consummerism related to this movie. Maybe religions have evolved, but not the people that practice them. There's no much difference between christianity, voodoo, tibetan buddhism ('real' tibetan buddhism), and any other religion, major and minor, as practiced by the general population. From a sociological point of view all of them share the same interest for relics, social binding practices, and blessings. And there's always someone willing to earn a living from them. Maybe I'm sidding with Supply Side Jesus here but it's up to the individuals to raise from their philosophical shambles and stop practicing cargo cults or stay happy with them. Those that produce the merchandising and sell them are no more evil than those who sell religion-mocking t-shirts. They are just providing some goods for those who would be willing to buy them.
• "One of the cruellest movies in the history of the cinema."
• "The movie is also a revival of medieval theatrical sadism."
• 'Jews Killed Jesus' Sign Causing Controversy
• Will the film harm Gibson's career? I doubt it. According to this article, there are some unhappy campers in Hollywood.
• Film critic Lance Goldenberg defends Mel Gibson's right to make The Passion of the Christ. He also doesn't think it's a good movie on it's own merits.

  The Passion of the Christ (hereafter referred to as The Passion, if only because I'm having a little difficulty dealing with that second "the") is tough going. It's a visceral and deliberately punishing experience that goes to great lengths fetishizing its copious pain, suffering, gore and instruments of torture. For all of its profound words and classy cinematography, there are times when The Passion feels uncomfortably close to a basic, whips-'n'-chains exploitation flick, albeit one produced with God on its side. At times, I felt like I was watching Women's Prison Massacre or Olga's House of Pain. Substitute a half-naked nubile or two for J.C. and a sneering lesbian warden for Pontius Pilate and you'd hardly notice.

  He makes interesting comments about Gibson's recent behavior.

  Gibson, whose The Passion of the Christ opens on Feb. 25 (Ash Wednesday), is acting a lot these days like a schoolyard bully daring someone to knock him down. More specifically, he seems to be in the throes of some full-throttle martyr complex, reveling in the prospect of a righteous crucifixion from heretics daring to take issue with his film. The former Road Warrior has begun to look like someone who has identified so completely with his subject that he is now actively engaged in his very own personal passion play. In the version that Mel is playing out, he is, of course, the star.

• There was a jewish boy who acted horrible. He bounced from school to school until finally he ended up in a catholic school. Immediatly he became the model of obedience and studiousness. When his parents asked him what caused the change he said, "I walked in and saw that the only other jew in the school was nailed to a cross I knew these people where serious." /The Comedy of the Christ Also, doesn't filming the movie entirely in aramaic and latin strike anyone else as, and I know were talking about a guy who claims to have been the messiah, pretentious?
• Ahh! Pretentiousness is the spice of art. Although I'm not sure if this "Passion" could be classified as art.
• Also, doesn't filming the movie entirely in aramaic and latin strike anyone else as pretentious? Actually, that's the one thing that almost makes me want to see it. I'd really enjoy listening to the languages.
• And the Lord said, "Let there be online aramaic lessons with sounds clips, and also let there be a ViewMaster! And the Lord looked out and saw that it was so, and it was good.