January 11, 2006

• Christ knows what the cool kids are using, but I'm getting a bunch of joy out of Ubuntu Linux, my first serious foray into using a *nix OS. It's been remarkably painless, in no small part due to the friendly support at their forums. Hardware recogniton is pretty damn good, and they'll mail you both an install disc and a live CD (so you can test your set-up for hardware compatibility, amongst other things), free, anywhere in the world. Gives cultist scary grin
• If you want to stick your toes in the the Linux waters, give K/Ubuntu a try. Easy to use, great default setup. Installing extra programs is a snap, and the Ubuntu site has easy to follow instructions for getting your mp3s/videos working (they don't include support for many vidoe/audio formats due to licensing issues.) If you want to dive in head first, use Slackware. Another great distro (my favorite), but you have to configure much of it yourself which can either be easy (if you have very common, widely supported, hardware) or hard (if you don't.) Configuring a system through text files is much easier than people make it sound though, so don't worry. There is also FreeBSD, if you'd like to go the more traditional Unix route, or even Solaris 10. I haven't played around with either as a desktop OS though, so I can't comment too heavily on them.
• Go Ubuntu, it's the best for and learning the concepts of *nix / OSS it's a great starter to better levels. Myself, I'm using Fedora core 4, but only for compatibilty with a few bits of software I'm using. I'd rather Gentoo and when I figure it out, I'm going to switch soon. -gives Abiezer secret cult hand signal-
• *admires the NewtonOS, prefers MacOS X*
• My personal favorite alternate OS is FreeBSD. All the fun, less politics. Any of the major distros of Linux are good - Ubuntu seems to be a fave right now, so why not? If you really want to have some fun, go OS X, but your wallet will hate you. Wait a month, though. Apple just announced the Intel powered machines so get one of those and double your fun.
• Ubuntu is teh r0x0r. If you wanted to prove your l33t skillz, you'd join the people getting OpenSolaris booting on PowerPC.
• You guys are probably considering conducting yourselves in such a way that this thread doesn't disintegrate in an ugly flamewar. I would ask that you reconsider. Young as it is, the Internet has its traditions.
• Well, fwiw, I haven't tried it but yeah Ubuntu is getting a lot of talk around where I geek. I dunno about the Gnome desktop, I got used to KDE awhile ago but . . . well, anyway. What is it you want from a new OS anyway? 1337-ism, or something more specific?
• I'm moving to a dual Ubuntu (primary)/Windows (secondary) boot once I figure out how to back up 30Gig of media, with a clean wipe/reformat in there. All the cool kids seem to be using Ubuntu. My laptop is running an oooold distro of Mandrake but that was back when Mandrake was the cool distro to run.
• I asked #2 since he's a linux fan from way back. He said MacOS. Damn. I quite liked Mandrake Linux for its usability although I always had trouble with printer drivers for a perfectly commonplace printer, and errors on shutdown related to my wireless network that I could never resolve. So, er, maybe I don't recomment Mandrake. I know #2 has installed Ubuntu and seemed to like it -- he's installed it on a media box (running FreeVo) he built some time back.
• I'm with Stan the Bat: As a long-time mac user, I demand the right to flame Windows users mercilessly (and have my sexuality questioned in response). I currently use OS X on my laptop, XP on my office computer, and they are both adequate to the tasks I use them for. Of course I don't have to maintain the Windows machine. (Zing!)
• If you chew cigars, shout a lot, and think the command line is where real men do real work, try OpenBSD. Its learning curve is steep and the Usenet forum is full of angry, fussy old men who are still in their twenties. The OS is good if you want to build useful devices like firewalls and servers. It's not appropriate as a friendly desktop and I use a Mac for that, but my firewall runs on an OBSD box.
• I downloaded and burned a live Ubuntu CD last week. The thing wouldn't let me set higher than 640X480 resolution when I booted to it. Is that par for the course, since it's not installed, or does it not detect my video card properly?
• I be TRIPLE booting on my computer! XP pro, XP-64 bit, and Ubuntu 64 Bit. You better reccognize. Live CD"s are the way to go for linux first. Find one that works easilly with your hardware. I tried a couple that people recommended but forwhatever reason they didn't work with my computer, but Ubuntu did, so I use it. All the l33t haxors are downloading osx for x86 and making it work on unofficial non-sanctioned hardware. You could always go your own way and try YellowTab's Zeta which is an updated version of BeOS. Or you could go old school and get eComStation which is OS/2 There are lots and lots of others as well, but I'm too lazy to list any more of them or try to think of them.
• I don't quite understand what the difference is between KDE and GNOME; the wikipedia articles for each are just out of my reach. So I don't understand the difference between Kubuntu and Ubuntu. Those terms keep coming up when I read about other recomended OSes, too. Can someone dumb it down for me? What is it you want from a new OS anyway? 1337-ism, or something more specific? Simplicity and functionality. I don't want a command line based (sorry OpenBSDers), and I want a GUI that's intuitive (sorry OS Xers).
• mct - I can't recall that problem but if you ask at the forums someone will know chants holy name of Ubuntu
• You could start with the free VMware Player and prebuilt images of Ubuntu for a taste of Gnome or Suse for the latest and greatest KDE. KDE vs. Gnome ... maybe this will help, maybe not. Certainly this part is well stated: ...selecting a desktop environment should probably be one of the last things you worry about as a Linux "newbie."
• Win98SE is really really great. I really really love it.
• Try any of the "liveCD" (i.e., bootable) OS CDs. I recommend either Knoppix or Ubuntu, or even one of the Morphix distributions. These will give you a feel for the OS and how well it will run on your hardware. When you're ready to make the switch for real, these CDs will also let you install the software to your hard drive.
• So is there a way to run a virtual session of Windows? I'd love to switch to Ubuntu on my desktop (I already have on my laptop). I need to run some Windows-only software occasionally but regularly but I'd much prefer a virtual session to dual-booting. The VMWare Player FAQ says it "supports Microsoft virtual machines" but of course none are available to download. Would I need Virtual PC (which is now an MS product) to create one? Has anyone done this?
• Pryde, that KDE vs Gnome article was really helpful. I'm downloading Ubuntu and Suse right now, for the virtual machine. It's kind of funny— I have hundreds of blank DVDs, but I don't have any blank CDs right now to try the liveCDs. I generally burn multiple cd iso's onto dvd, then use a virtual CD drive to read it. I can't use bootables that way though.
• Suse w/ KDE at home. Combo of OS X and WinXP at work. The key to any successful linux experience is using the package manager. Mr. Knickerbocker, as soon as you decide to take the leap and actually install any linux distro, I'd highly suggest heading on over to MPlayer and picking up all the codecs (even if you choose to not download and use MPlayer). Without them multimedia on linux won't work.
• jet_silver: openbsd has been my friendly desktop since 2.8. there is also a vmware image for it. as for ubuntu, nothing much separates it from other linux distros except hype.
• The difference between Gnome and KDE is that KDE is better than Gnome in every way. Of course, The boxes are better than them both, and FVWM is king.
• What is "the boxes"?
• das boxen
• Oh, nevermind, it is the wm's {black,open,flux}box. I think Sawfish is the best wm because it's programmable in lisp. Ha Ha!
• I prefer os X on the desktop and Freebsd on my servers like a lot of cool people do.. but if you want to experiment for fun I would give linux a try (ubuntu might be a good first) or more obscure, openbsd, netbsd or plan9. Even more obscure (as in mostly academic or barely usable): minix, hurd.
• I've run linux of one flavor or another since 1995. So you know I'm a major geek, right? So what would I do if I was starting over? If I could afford it, I would choose OSX, hands down. Short of that, I have no idea. I'm so used to the pain of Debian that I don't actually notice it any more. Which means, I'd recommend it, but I probably only like it because it's what I know. That and the updates are magic.
• ye gads that reads like a mac commercial.
• Stan, sfred: this ain't Slashdot. Thank [insert deity here].
• Live CD is where it's at to try things out first. (It's also not bad to have one as a rescue disk anyway.) I have been off of PCs for a year now (woot) but I have been hearing nothing but good about Ubuntu, both online and from the IT people at work. While we were still using the old PC, we tried Red Hat and SUSE. We actually had more trouble with SUSE for some reason, but most everyone I've heard raves about its ease of use. The only reason we got away from Red Hat is that the hard disks that it was on suffered a head crash, and I didn't have my install disks for it. We loved Red Hat. That's when we went SUSE. So for a while we were a Mac OSX and Linux house... now we've got two Macs. One thing you'll notice when you get away from Windows for a while - after using KDE and/or OSX for a while, you start to see just how butt-ugly Windows is.
• Mac OS X is teh best IMHO, and you don't necessarily have to own a mac to run it. Next up is Ubuntu. eComStation(aka OS/2 Warp) who are giving away a free demo CD FreeDOS and maybe the Qube GUI
• What's wrong with you people? I came in this thread expecting a little lunchtime flame war entertainment, and I find this? THIS?
• timefactor wrote: "So is there a way to run a virtual session of Windows?" Um... BartPE? I used BartPE to make a Windows live boot disk; gives access to the HDD (I use it to rescue trashed systems). You'll need a copy of Win2k or XP to make the disk image. Just keep a small NTFS partition with your program on it, or install the program to your BartPE disk. As for OS... I like my Windows XP. No matter what you say about it, in good hands Windows is not a bad OS, and it's much more comfortable to me than OSX (Suck on that, Mac fans! - although I admit I do envy the "drag folder and it's installed" functionality of OSX). XP is stable and solid, so long as you know what you're doing. Maybe that's the best way to describe OS differences: -Linux means you need to know what you're doing to install it, or make major changes. -Windows means you can install and run painlessly, but you need to know what you're doing to keep it safe from hackers and malware -OSX means you have no issues installing or running it, but you need to know that you're now committed to a specific hardware platform for a long time (and 30 seconds after you buy it Steve Jobs will announce that your version has been discontinued, but the new model features an ethernet jack that plugs directly into your head and interfaces with your brain. Still, 90% of the world won't care.) For Linux I like my Slackware, I have 10.2 running on a couple of servers. The KDE desktop is nice, and not too weird for a long-time Windows person to use. The install isn't too bad, and I did learn a lot about Linux by setting it up - I used Red Hat 8 and 9 on an older server, and every time I need to log in to that thing I get mad that it doesn't run Slack. Slack is (AFAIK) the oldest existing Linux build that is actively maintained. New releases are thoroughly tested (which means you may be a kernel or two behind, to make sure things are stable). There are lots of people making easy-to-use Slack software packages at linuxpackages.net, and lots of help may be found on the Slackware "slackers helping slackers" forums. Of course like any Linux forum they all assume you cut your teeth on a command line. Steep learning curve at first, but it's not too bad: if you have used DOS you can use the bash shell. (My favorite bookmark for those times that I forget the bash commands is here. They have Windows commands as well.) I have heard good things about Ubuntu, and much fun has been had making fun of the release names.
• I'd like to comment on the KDE vs. GNOME thing. All of these are my _opinions_. KDE Pros: Probably the most complete and mature GUI available on the linux desktop. There's always a way to configure it to do what you want it to do. Eyecandy out the nose. Even if you don't use it, some of the KDE apps are indispensible - specific shout outs to Konqueror (best file manager in Linux, hands down), K3B (best CD burner I've ever used on any platform), and amoroK (iTunes wishes it could be this. Really.) Just about every bell and whistle you can think up can be done in KDE, and configured from the GUI. KDE Cons: Absolutely the heaviest GUI in terms of system resources that I have ever seen (processor always busy, usually with all the spice animations and such, and ram - a default Kubuntu desktop, upon login, likes to take up 320 of the 512M in my system, with no extra apps running.) Because of this, also one of the slowest I've witnessed. One of the busiest GUI's around, in terms of available widgets/icons/options/pulldown menus, which can make even simple tasks very time-consuming to accomplish (there are four separate sections of the Kcontrol control panel that deal with how the GUI looks. Each one of these sections have multiple tabs.) All of the icons look like they are made of glass (the OsX influence is easy to spot here), so much so that many icons are difficult to distinguish from one another at first glance. When I use KDE, I often spend more time tweaking it than I do using my computer... but for a Windows convert, newbie, or control freak, its arguably the best desktop around. GNOME Pros: While not as complete and mature as KDE, it is very capable as a desktop environment. Its more simplistic design and more plain layout makes for a very functional default arrangement. Some of its default apps are also practically mandatory – Evolution (which can use Exchange servers) is incredible, GAIM (IM client for just about every protocol) is a must. A more lightweight desktop in terms of processor/ram – in Ubuntu's Breezy release, a virgin desktop hits me at about 240m of Ram on average, and the processor is generally idle much of the time (unless I'm running apps). (The development version of GNOME is even better in this regard – RAM usage has basically been halved on my system, and this rivals some of the DE's touted as “lightweight”, like XFCE.) The direction of some of the art/HIG is looking way up, giving a more corporate look and feel to the environment, and more and more system configuration is being rolled up into the desktop's functionality. GNOME Cons: Many complain that GNOME lacks features, and this is difficult to argue with. It is not as “tweakable” as KDE, and sometimes getting GNOME or some of its apps to do exactly what you want can be daunting. If you're a fan of eye candy, you may have to work on GNOME – a lot - to make it pretty. Because of display libraries and font rendering, GNOME can feel sluggish at times (though this too has been overhauled in the latest dev version, so it won't be a complaint for long). Some of the GNOME apps don't look or feel as “unified” with the desktop environments as KDE apps do. Slow to add even heavily requested features. When I use GNOME, I generally find myself to be very productive. I do wish it were a bit more capable (the file manager, Nautilus, is notoriously spartan), and with environments like KDE and OSX around, it sure could work on its “wow” factor. Whichever linux you choose, use a LIVECD first. Good Luck. (P.S.: I can't recommend any Apple products: prohibitive price, very restrictive hardware/software monopoly, lack of gaming capability, among other reasons. I also find them to be underpowered: compared to similarly spec'd nForce-based Athlon64 system, a G5 will almost always lose a benchmark. Just CAN'T beat the style and easy as 1-2-3, though.)
• @timefactor: VMware can handle WinXP no problem, but you'll have to install it from disc into the virtual machine yourself since anybody distributing an image would be violating its license. Legally you'd have to have a separate cd key for the VM too, and also deal with activation unless you're using corporate. It sounds like you'd benefit more from the full VMware Workstation too, but there are ways to create virtual machines without getting the commercial version (though one of them is to use the trial version of Workstation). Live CD's are great, but I've fallen in love with virtual machines since it means I don't have to burn to cd and then interrupt whatever else I'm doing to reboot and poke around a bit. You can even boot virtual machines from live CDs, but you need to be extra liberal with RAM since they like to take a chunk to use as a temporary ramdisk. With the Player you need a virtual drive if you want to boot straight from the iso, but Workstation can mount them itself. I'd like to see prebuilt VM's catch on among some niche distros this year (the free player just came out in October or November). There're MANY distros to choose from. Go here and marvel at the choices.
• What's wrong with you people? Linux is a fucking joke. Really it is. I use Windows 2000 everyday running a graphics workshop business and I never get BSOD's nor do I seem to have all of the troubles you Linux nuts seem to have. * I just copied bits and pieces of that from an old Usenet thread. Now the discussion is authentic. You may proceed.
• TRS DOS
• I do use Ubuntu primarily myself and, um, Windows too. The next release in particular, Dapper Drake, due out in April along with the next Gnome, should be really outstanding. (Their 6 month release cycles are purposely synced.) Great community, lots of software and how-to's available. I haven't tried it beyond the live CD, but PCLinuxOS gets some pretty good word of mouth for being easy to use. (Distrowatch does a good job of keeping track of reviews and listing them on the distro's page.) Pretty much everything's supposed to work out of the box, even proprietary multimedia stuff which Ubuntu intentionally excludes (requiring you to set it up yourself). Also maybe of interest: PC-BSD is an attmept to make a user friendly BSD system (besides OSX).
• Why not get old school? Run the OSes of times past? My favorite 8-bit system was the Atari 800 series, from back in the day when 48K was enough for most anything you needed to do. Atari 800 Emulator or for Mac this one: Atari800MacX You can still find all the programming books and such in html or pdf, so you can easily roll your own programs and have fun learning programming the old way. Plus, play some really fun games that show how much fun a joystick with a single button can be and done in less memory that a single sound sample takes on an Xbox. And Atari Age has lots of great related reading. For more advanced computing, the Amiga has a hoopty little OS. In it's day nothing touched it's technology, but it's small market share kept little of great note from being developed on it. It's multitasking, for example, far more usable than anything else commonly available for a good ten years. UAE Amiga Emulator, WinUAE and Mac UAE. Amiga Forever keeps the fire burning with a licensed collection of ROMs and OSs. The Amiga was a hot little game machine too, the Amiga 500 motherboards were even fitted with custom ROM packs and placed into arcade machines in the early 90s.
• nonbinary, this is a plan that I can support. If done right, you automatically rise to super-l33t status in most OS wars. You kids and your GUI...
• Look people...if your OS sucks, it obviously means the teeny tiny chimp living in your CPU has died. Get into the box, and shake it about until its little mummified body hits the floor and shatters. Sweep into corner. Take new teeny tiny chimp carefully from ziplock bag and shove in box. Voila! All is fantastic. Remember to sqoosh bananas through little feeding holes on sides of the unit. Did we forget last time? Is that why we're reading this tutorial? Hmmmm?
• rxreed: The Amiga shipped in 1984 with a rather nice GUI. It was an amazingly hot box of super natural goodness. At the time I wanted a Mac, but couldn't afford one. So I bought the Amiga and a Mac emulator which ran faster than the Macs at the time, for about half the price. Plus, I had one of the most graphically advanced computers at the time for art and gaming. It was a brilliant machine that was poorly marketed and died a horrible, prolonged death.
• I don't know where monkeys come from.. I don't know how they reproduce.. I don't know how they eat. But I do know one thing: they were born to work computers.
• It was an amazingly hot box of super natural goodness. Oh, the joke rolodex, how it spins in my head!
• windows for necessity, mac os for pleasure, os2 warp for ecstacy.