December 17, 2005

Bush Acknowledges Approving Eavesdropping Newsfilter. Bush said Saturday he personally has authorized a secret eavesdropping program in the U.S. more than 30 times since the Sept. 11 attacks and he lashed out at those involved in publicly revealing the program.
posted by LivewireConfusion 18 years ago
  • ...and that is exactly what I will continue to do as long as I am president of the United States Maybe not for much longer, Buba
  • What's it going to take before the American public give this churl the bum's rush?
  • Man, I distinctly remember Conservatives touting the evils of "Big Government" back in the day. I do not know what could be more "Big Government" than listening in on my phone calls.
  • What's it going to take before the American public give this churl the bum's rush? "He's going to start eating one live Jew baby each morning on live TV. 'Cmere, Chaim! [gnaw chew] What're you gonna do about it, America!?'" -- David Cross
  • In a world where the Buthole Bear post gets more attention than this post; I don't think any sort of action will be taken to remove him.
  • You mean the Butthole Bear post wasn't about Bush?
  • Somehow, I'm not surprised that this happened. What surprises me is that this is even news, all things considered. After a while, you just get used to the beatings.
  • What's it going to take before the American public give this churl the bum's rush? He's proven time and again that he can do whatever he damn well pleases and there's not a thing anyone can do about it. Clinton gets a b.j. and is impeached*, this guy invalidates the Constitution and is applauded. I've resigned myself to hoping some sort of sense will prevail at some point, thereby not screwing this country, or any others, up too much more badly. Also, there's an opportunity to shake things up in the congressional elections next year. Also, what dmn said. *Isn't it deemed an impeachment when the impeachment process is begun?
  • Next year's elections are going to be *huge*. They started running campaign commercials for them here in Ohio the *day after* election day in November. (I mean, my goodness, give us a week or two in between election cycles to clear the head!) But yes, hopefully people will pay attention to what's going on and use the elections as a chance to shake things up. /eternal optimist
  • Dubya's gotten away with a lot... but this time he's really stepped in it. Oh, minda25, you are correct. Being impeached is the first step - after that the Senate can remove you from office, but being impeached doesn't mean the end in and of itself.
  • minda25 said: He's proven time and again that he can do whatever he damn well pleases and there's not a thing anyone can do about it. Agreed... but more like "there's not a thing anyone will do about it". With all the stupid people I see on a daily basis (not dumb, but stupid) I've given up hope. Captain Bligh still seems to have the ship, so I'm tucking a few more blankets in my hammock and partaking freely in the grog.
  • Butthole Bear post still 5 comments ahead people.
  • Butthole Bear in 2008. Because America deserves a president who's REALLY talking out of his ass.
  • So who's writing to their Congressman and/or Senator about this? Who's going to lobby outside their state senator's office, or even on the steps of the US Senate, or even outside the White House? Who's going to start a letters-to-the-editor campaign? Who's calling all the media to express their disgust. Get the ball rolling, people. Take it off the Internet and into the real world and get everyone else fired up about it too. Apathy shouldn't be an excuse, and nor should Bush-fatigue or whatever us cool kids are calling it.
  • AMEN Tracicle. You got your letter in the mail yet?
  • Bush is a Republican. Congress is Republican. If he was eating live babies in the Rose Garden on television, they still wouldn't do anything. The Republicans *don't care*. Or don't you get that yet? They didn't give a damn when this whole mess got started and they still don't give a damn because they think it's the right thing to do. It doesn't matter if it isn't - it's a Republican who did all this and they're going to get his back, regardless.
  • Bad photoshop job I know. : /
  • What's it going to take before the American public give this churl the bum's rush? I think it's slowly starting to happen; let's not get so wrapped up in our own hyperbole that we lose all hope. These things take awhile, at least for Americans (consider how long it took for everyone to realise what a shitty idea Vietnam was). I wonder if it's partly just The American Way to think it perfectly reasonable to just stay wrapped up in your own little microcosm and never consider the health of your nation or the world as your responsibility. I wonder if it's an American ideal to be able to escape those unpleasants facts of life. America needs a good kick in the nuts...or at least to realise it's already recieved one.
  • My congressman (Rush Holt) already has a statement up about this report. He thinks that the problem is that "congressional oversight" these days consists of two or four or eight members of Congress. There's something to what he says--the more people who know about BS like this, the more likely it is that it will come out and people will protest. It worries me that we're reliving the Vietnam years in terms of domestic policy. I'm just waiting to hear that this "eavesdropping" is really more like COINTELPRO. I don't like to throw around the impeach-Bush stuff, but criminy, this is so much more important than an intern and a blowjob.
  • You got your letter in the mail yet? I don't know how much attention the US reps will pay to someone in NZ. Of course, if it affects me, I'll happily send out masses of emails to my favourite Senator Feinstein. /sheepish
  • You're all a bunch of haters. USA is strongest and smartest evar! USA RULeZ!!!11!!1!
  • Why does Bush hate our freedom so much? (Really, I want to know.)
  • It cuts into profits
  • Where are your priorities, people? THERE'S A WAR ON CHRISTMAS GOING ON.
  • Please, somebody execute this motherfucker right now.
  • Homeland Security all up in your bidness.
  • Thanks for the reminder, trac - I just submitted what I hope wasn't a too-wordy appeal to Senator Feinstein to do something about this.
  • Funny thing about Feinstien she owes the city of Cork, Ireland 1 million US Dollars.
  • Oooh, explain! I can't stand Feinstein; she was determined to make my and all other visa holders' lives as inconvenient and difficult as possible after 9/11. I wrote to her a couple of times and always got a form letter un response.
  • It's a long and complicated story. She came here in the mid 1980s during which time Cork was very economically depressed. She told city council man Bernie Murphy that "[She would] give 1 million Dollars in aid to Cork City." Well Dr. Cllr. Bernie Murphy, who could not read nor write, and who got in to office on the protest vote took her at her word and went to San Francisco to collect the money in cash. It was in all the newspapers at the time. This political prank, and many others were thought up by Bernie's friend, photographer and aid Billy macGill (my boss). While in San Fran they visited the O'Farrell Brother's Theater as they promised them some Guinness they bought especially for them, well... but that's another story. Basically, Ireland at that time was banana republic so to speak and these merry pranksters took an advantage of that fact. Check out the book "GUBU Nation" for a fun read. I will scan some of the news articles and post them. They we're weary of empty promises made by politicians and decided to strike out against her. Technically, she still owes the money. However, we will waive the accumulated interest.
  • The lead story on cnn.com says that Bush is saying that the New York Times jeopardized the safety of the United States by running the story. Please correct me if I am wrong. The NYT story was that Bush authorized wiretaps of US citizens without a warrant beginning in 2002. I cannot possibly understand how this puts anyone in danger. Is the idea that now terrorists will not speak as freely on the telephone as they have been? Is that actually what he is arguing?
  • The fear of having Cheney as President has a lot to do with why he's still in office...
  • Unless... We impeach both of them! BTW, I thought Cheney was running the show already.
  • Exactally! Cheney should die from something slow and extremely debilatating. Bush should die from something fast. We should elect Underpants Monster. Why not? At least he'd try harder.
  • Gotta make it look like an accident...
  • President Underpants Monster...hmmm. I'd consider being Butthole Bear's running mate. At least the Butthole/Underpants bumper stickers would be popular in college towns. I suspect Cheney is already dying of something slow and painful. His heart is two sizes too small...
  • art vandal, I think that's an amazing photoshop job! I have to admit that I've come dangerously close to losing hope and wanting to ignore the whole thing until it goes away. It seems like there's nothing this administration can do to get their supporters to hate them. I feel like, until we do something to make our election process truly represent the will of the people, even more elections won't help. Even then, with the nation so split down the middle...ah, hell, I'm too tired to even think about it.
  • To CIVIL WAR! Let's all get nuked later! /Johntitorish
  • Scary article, art vandal. Did y'all see that mess? Dayam. The lead story on cnn.com says that Bush is saying that the New York Times jeopardized the safety of the United States by running the story. Bush hates the press. For obvious reasons. Democrats call for investigation into wiretaps although the picture includes Republican Arlen Specter so . . ?
  • Specter and McCaine call for investigation. This is the angle I've been hearing from every other news source on the issue, I don't know why CNN doesn't find it interesting.
  • Who cares if Bush broke the law?? I mean, he’s doing it to protect us from terrorists. You gotta break eggs if you wanna have omelets. Clinton broke the law to cover up his rape of Monica. Bush is breaking the law to save us from terrorism. It is clear that Bush is breaking the law for good reasons. Posted by: Barney at December 16, 2005 14:34 Permalink Barney, you are one dim bulb.
  • And a lot of dim bulbs vote.
  • I'm just waiting to hear that this "eavesdropping" is really more like COINTELPRO. Funny you should mention that ...
  • Bush: Wiretaps lawful, will continue a.k.a. Bush: Fuck All Y'all Beyotches, I'mma Presah'ent! *fires 9mm into press corps*
  • Senator Feinstein pulls through for us trac, LiveWireConfusion, my sympathies for your bad experiences with her. Especailly in LiveWireConfusion's case, there's no excuse.
  • Bush is now in play. It seems the pResident has admitted to an impeachable felony.
  • Maybe this, plus all the other crap (Plame leak, Iraq quagmire, lies on the march to war) will finally get the U.S. back on a reasonable track. Even if so, they've done so much damage -- to Iraq; to America's standing in the world.
  • (Not to mention the fall of DeLay, that power-mad prick.)
  • When Bush dropped bombs, you people hated on him. When Bush dropped out of the National Guard - ditto. Now Bush is dropping eaves, and - surprise surprise - looks like you're all on his back AGAIN. Really, you people are so fucking predictable.
  • I don't care if we're predictable just so long as he's indictable!
  • "Maybe this... will finally get the U.S. back on a reasonable track." You've been on a reasonable track, at some point? When?
  • Oh, for a few hours in 1781...
  • One F.B.I. document indicates that agents in Indianapolis planned to conduct surveillance as part of a "Vegan Community Project." Fuckin' vegans, right? They're hurting America! Props to tha H-dogg once again fo' keepin' it rizzeal.
  • Where are the conservative nutters on this one? Over on mefi thread #47744 on this topic old dios is singlehandedly battling all the critics. Painfull, but at least he's giving it a shot. And over in another thread where the mefites are hashing out Echelon ParisParamus is holding the line. Perhaps with the greatest quote I've seen in some time: I am glad President Bush is doing this. That should be on my xmas cards, or maybe a shirt. Plastic's resident apologists gave up early on this topic, but at least put in a token bit of resistance. So where they at? Can someone at least fake it? Not much of a discussion if everybody agrees, so where are the apologists? Anyone? Anyone who actually voted for him have anything to contribute?
  • This is the kind of thing that separates the true conservative-idealogue-Bush-apologists from the I-like-to-argue-on-the-internets-Bush-apologists. Members of the former group should be disgusted with their president on this issue. Members of the latter group will hardly be able to control their hard-ons.
  • I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this is a clear violation of the law. Whether or not Bush can make the case to congress that it's in the purview of executive privilege to authorize 30 clear violations of that law, I don't know. Of all the things that people have gotten their panties in a wedge about rgarding this president, this seems like the most clearly illegal act. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go supress a hard-on :)
  • Yeah I'd have thought lying to get us in a war would have trumped this, but *shrug* whatever. My theory is that he's touched a nerve with the weapon-stockpiling survivalist crowd that voted Bush because they wouldn't vote for Kerry if he was unopposed.
  • Where you assume he's lying, he can (and has) made the case of it was bad intel/I'm not really lying, you just haven't given us enough time/it doesn't matter anyway because it was the right thing to do, and if you all could understand that, I wouldn't have had to lie to you in the first place. This, however, is clearly illegal and, what's more, he defends it.
  • The thing about the war is, yeah it's complete crap, but Congress rolled over and approved it for him so they can't very well impeach him for it. This on the other hand... I'm not so much shocked at the spying as the Nixonian defiance. Actually, at least Nixon had the decency to deny his crimes. He never came out on TV and said "yeah I'm doing this illegal thing and I'm going to continue to do it."
  • Oh and: In 2004 and 2005, Bush repeatedly argued that the controversial Patriot Act package of anti-terrorism laws safeguards civil liberties because US authorities still need a warrant to tap telephones in the United States. "Any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order," he said on April 20, 2004 in Buffalo, New York. "Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so," he added. On April 19, 2004, Bush said the Patriot Act enabled law-enforcement officials to use "roving wiretaps," which are not fixed to a particular telephone, against terrorism, as they had been against organized crime. "You see, what that meant is if you got a wiretap by court order -- and by the way, everything you hear about requires court order, requires there to be permission from a FISA court, for example," he said in Hershey, Pennsylvania.
  • Just a quick thing about congress approving it - they approved Bush to take action if he saw fit (the whole "don't tie my hands" meme), but the decision wasn't Congress', it was Bush himself who ordered the troops to go in. point of order, clarification, IMMO, etc.
  • Fes, I don't know if you've read it, but in my link to Senator Feinstein's response, she lays out exactly how he broke the law. It's a pretty long statement, but worth the read if you want to find out about the illegality of his actions. Is "illegality" a word? If not, I've just invented it.
  • il·le·gal·i·ty Pronunciation Key (l-gl-t) n. pl. il·le·gal·i·ties 1. The quality or state of being illegal.
  • dammit!
  • Maybe people are starting to get an inkling of what's going on. This man's title is KING Bush. Ain't no one allowed to mess with him. Us plebes will never be get him out of there at this point. It was probably too late even before this last election.
  • "The thing about the war is, yeah it's complete crap, but Congress rolled over and approved it for him so they can't very well impeach him for it." Wrong. The Bush administration presented (fake) evidence that Hussein's regime was a clear and present danger to the U.S.A. which swayed congress to approve Bush using force to bear on Iraq. This was the whole 45 minutes, Niger Uranium, big bad WMD threat stuff. That turned out to be all bullshit. As a matter of fact, I think Bush originally said he only wanted to enforce UN inspections, but when Hussein suddenly (and maddeningly for Bush) agreed to the inspections themselves, the Bush admin trumped up the reasons to barge on in with military force. The issue of contention is whether the Bush administration actively deceived congress, or whether they really believed this bogus, unsuported and totally fantastical evidence. The Bush administration's every action at every point has been to prevent evidence coming to the surface that they knowingly deceived congress. This is the key to understanding the Plame case, as it happens.
  • well spoke, well spoke.
  • Thanks Minda. Usually I see "Feinstein," think "bullshit," and move along, but I appreciate the point-up. Windy but informative.
  • Anyone remember TIA? Or their creepy-as-all-fuck logo?
  • Report: Spy court judge quits in protest Bush's secret surveillance program said to be a concern A federal judge has resigned from a special court set up to oversee government surveillance to protest President Bush's secret authorization of a domestic spying program on people with suspected terrorist ties, The Washington Post reported. . . .Robertson's resignation was reported hours after Vice President Dick Cheney strongly defended the surveillance program and called for "strong and robust" presidential powers.
  • Two hundred years from now it's likely that this moment will get a mention in the US history books. Thus everyone at all times should dress in appropriate historical garb, just in case they end up being in the picture that the book's creators use to define the event. Formal evening wear for everyone, and big red round rubber noses. Let us, as a Nation, play with the heads of those who will come later. Robust? How much more robust does Cheney want? Insanity.
  • He's a memetic Alister Crowley, that one (sp?)
  • Thus everyone at all times should dress in appropriate historical garb, just in case they end up being in the picture that the book's creators use to define the event. I'll go dig out my Miami Vice T-shirt, jelly shoes, lace-trimmed capri pants, big dangly plastic earrings, and raspberry beret...
  • However, should such abuse or misinterpretation occur, I agree that such actions are mere errors and no one should be subject to investigation, arrest, or employment action as a result. mmm. Yeah.
  • homunculus, great find! It would be funny if Bush hadn't pretty much said that he expects all Americans to submit to exactly what's in that post. Sigh.
  • via Salon by Peter Daou The Dynamic of a Bush Scandal: How the Spying Story Will Unfold (and Fade) - The third button on the Daou Report's navigation bar links to the U.S. Constitution, a Constitution many Americans believe is on life support - if not already dead. The cause of its demise is the corrosive interplay between the Bush administration, a bevy of blind apologists, a politically apathetic public, a well-oiled rightwing message machine, lapdog reporters, and a disorganized opposition. The domestic spying case perfectly illuminates the workings of that system. And the unfolding of this story augurs poorly for those who expect it to yield different results from other administration scandals. Here's why: the dynamic of a typical Bush scandal follows familiar contours... 1. POTUS circumvents the law - an impeachable offense. 2. The story breaks (in this case after having been concealed by a news organization until well after Election 2004). 3. The Bush crew floats a number of pushback strategies, settling on one that becomes the mantra of virtually every Republican surrogate. These Republicans face down poorly prepped Dem surrogates and shred them on cable news shows. 4. Rightwing attack dogs on talk radio, blogs, cable nets, and conservative editorial pages maul Bush's critics as traitors for questioning the CIC.
  • 5. The Republican leadership plays defense for Bush, no matter how flagrant the Bush over-reach, no matter how damaging the administration's actions to America's reputation and to the Constitution. A few 'mavericks' like Hagel or Specter risk the inevitable rightwing backlash and meekly suggest that the president should obey the law. John McCain, always the Bush apologist when it really comes down to it, minimizes the scandal. 6. Left-leaning bloggers and online activists go ballistic, expressing their all-too-familiar combination of outrage at Bush and frustration that nothing ever seems to happen with these scandals. Several newspaper editorials echo these sentiments but quickly move on to other issues. 7. A few reliable Dems, Conyers, Boxer, et al, take a stand on principle, giving momentary hope to the progressive grassroots/netroots community. The rest of the Dem leadership is temporarily outraged (adding to that hope), but is chronically incapable of maintaining the sense of high indignation and focus required to reach critical mass and create a wholesale shift in public opinion. For example, just as this mother of all scandals hits Washington, Democrats are still putting out press releases on Iraq, ANWR and a range of other topics, diluting the story and signaling that they have little intention of following through. This allows Bush to use his three favorite weapons: time, America's political apathy, and make-believe 'journalists' who yuck it up with him and ask fluff questions at his frat-boy pressers. 8. Reporters and media outlets obfuscate and equivocate, pretending to ask tough questions but essentially pushing the same narratives they've developed and perfected over the past five years, namely, some variation of "Bush firm, Dems soft." A range of Bush-protecting tactics are put into play, one being to ask ridiculously misleading questions such as "Should Bush have the right to protect Americans or should he cave in to Democratic political pressure?" All the while, the right assaults the "liberal" media for daring to tell anything resembling the truth. 9. Polls will emerge with 'proof' that half the public agrees that Bush should have the right to "protect Americans against terrorists." Again, the issue will be framed to mask the true nature of the malfeasance. The media will use these polls to create a self-fulfilling loop and convince the public that it isn't that bad after all. The president breaks the law. Life goes on. 10. The story starts blending into a long string of administration scandals, and through skillful use of scandal fatigue, Bush weathers the storm and moves on, further demoralizing his opponents and cementing the press narrative about his 'resolve' and toughness. Congressional hearings might revive the issue momentarily, and bloggers will hammer away at it, but the initial hype is all the Democratic leadership and the media can muster, and anyway, it's never as juicy the second time around... Rinse and repeat. It's a battle of attrition that Bush and his team have mastered. Short of a major Dem initiative to alter the cycle, to throw a wrench into the system, to go after the media institutionally, this cycle will continue for the foreseeable future.
  • petebest, that depressed me as nothing has in a long time. Because it rang so damned true.
  • Lara, my sentiments exactly. I believe that most of us here are not apathetic. Is there anything we can do?
  • 4. Rightwing attack dogs on talk radio, blogs, cable nets, and conservative editorial pages maul Bush's critics as traitors for questioning the CIC. They're just trying to have a dialog.
  • I believe that most of us here are not apathetic. Is there anything we can do? I'm planning to give Mrs. Best a good rogering. If that doesn't work, I'll try it again. Mmmmm - impeachy!
  • homunculus, that was beautiful. Thank you.
  • Damned good article, homunculus. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that so many people don't see things that way, and jump right on the "it's ok because he's saving us from the evildoing terrorists" bandwagon.
  • reprahse't!
  • You'll have to speak up, I've got a banana in my ear.
  • Excellent, thanks h-dogg. Who the @#%! is Trent Duffy? Did he take over for the guy who lies all the time? Or would like to lie if it weren't under current investigation?
  • Excellent radio interview with Tom Blanton who runs The National Security Archive, a repository for intelligence documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. And not connected to the Federal Government. Which is why the interview is excellent. He's actually saying something about this.
  • But...they got them thar muslins in them thar Philpeens!
  • Hastens to add, for benefit of the holiday-dazed, that the above is intended sarcastically.
  • Hmm. Four minutes. I make haste slowly.
  • None shall pass.
  • Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House, and Senator Jay Rockefeller, the Democratic senator from West Virginia, a man known for some sensitivity to civil liberties infringements, and a substantial number of congressmen, plus the New York Times, all knew of Bush's illegal spying. Pelosi, Rockefeller, and several other congressmen "confidentially" expressed concern but did nothing. Nothing.
  • Another great article, homunculus. It echoes what I've been wondering lately. Is our government doomed by its very structure to never be completely stable?
  • Well, I'd argue it's not supposed to be stable, hence the checks & balances (or, if you prefer, "smash & grab"). However my link (*ahem* no that's okay, no I see how it is . . ) points out that the people who were supposed to do the "checking" failed to do so for whatever reason.
  • Yeah, but that's my point I think, petebest. That the flaw that's inherent in the system is that everyone has to be honest and do his or her job to make it work like it's supposed to. I absolutely agree that the checks haven't balanced and the balanced aren't being checked. I dunno if I really have a point now that I think about it. Just the germ of another thing to worry about while I'm trying to go to sleep. Maybe no government can ever be stable because we're human, and eventually some power hungry idiot will figure out a way to exploit any system.
  • Awways Do The Right Thing.
  • No, never! Do the leftish thing instead!
  • But Tice disagrees. He says the number of Americans subject to eavesdropping by the NSA could be in the millions if the full range of secret NSA programs is used.
  • Bush Spied on citizens before 9-11. via MeFi
  • Does anybody else want the phrase "make no mistake" stricken from the English language?
  • Al Gore's call to arms. via a currently 190-comment trainwreck of a clusterfuck of a thread on the blue. Straw man! Straw man!
  • White House: Oh, yeah?! Well, YOU'RE a hypocrite, and YOU'RE out of bounds!!! I hadn't heard before that Hillary called our administration one of the worst in history. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
  • McClellan said the Clinton-Gore administration had engaged in warrantless physical searches, and he cited an FBI search of the home of CIA turncoat Aldrich Ames without permission from a judge. He said Clinton's deputy attorney general, Jamie Gorelick, had testified before Congress that the president had the inherent authority to engage in physical searches without warrants. First, McClellan is a lying tool and he may as well tell me 2+2=4 because I'm not going to believe him. He has zero credibility and the best thing he could do is to resign in disgrace. Secondly, there's a key distinction in acting without a warrant in one instance and pursuing an ever-expanding program of it. Thirdly, there's also a key difference in a physical search and wiretapping. Fourthly, McClellan knows all those things and that proves he's a piece of shit toady with the worst job available in ShrubCo.
  • Does anybody else want the phrase "make no mistake" stricken from the English language? Anytime I hear that, I know immediately that "Mistakes were made."
  • Does anybody else want the phrase "make no mistake" stricken from the English language? Anytime I hear that, I know immediately that "Mistakes were made." The same way anyone who says "Let's not play the blame game" is usually to blame.
  • I feel the same way every time my wife says "Please quit trying to put that in my butt."
  • Hitchens.
  • It did a lot of damage to the horrific Richard Nixon. . . . They can't act as if it's a law, but they don't have to obey it. And yet they do. Arrogantly. Bush heads - let's hear you! Toby Keith, are you out there? Kickin' some raghead ass?? Speak up!
  • In its second report, issued Wednesday at the request of Rep. Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, the CRS says that the administration's decision to brief only a handful of members of Congress about the NSA program appears to have violated the National Security Act.
  • As long as he doesn't try to test his Unitard Theory...
  • The Bush team has deliberately concealed this program, not only from the public and Congress, but, most damning of all, from the very agency that is responsible for executing the laws of this country: the Department of Justice (DOJ). Well, except for the few members of congress they told about it. Possibly to the wrong of national security law. Not that they care.
  • ....the Pentagon now collects domestic intelligence that goes beyond legitimate concerns about terrorism or protecting U.S. military installations, say critics.....The DOD database obtained by NBC News includes nearly four dozen anti-war meetings or protests, including some that have taken place far from any military installation, post or recruitment center. Butthole Bear, indeed.
  • "I'm mindful of your civil liberties and so I had all kinds of lawyers review the process," Bush told some 9,000 students, soldiers and dignitaries in the audience. pre-screened, loyalty-oathed, unthinking students, soldiers, and dignitaries. Who will be wiretapped to be on the safe side. What a fuckin' sad ass excuse for a President. Damn Clinton could have had scat sex with a pre-op transsexual on the front lawn and not made the office, or by extension, us, look so bad.
  • This statement is factually false, and Rove has to know that it’s false. Nobody of any note – let alone "some important Democrats" – disagree that it’s "in our national security interest to know" who Al Qaeda is calling and why. Nobody opposes eavesdropping on Al Qaeda, and Rove knows that. And yet, here he is, claiming, falsely, that the NSA scandal is based on a disagreement about whether the Government should be eavesdropping on Al Qaeda, even though no such disagreement exists. This is not about claiming a little poetic license with flamboyant political rhetoric, nor is this a dispute over how one characterizes the viewpoints of one’s political opponents. This is just false propaganda, pure and simple, with no goal but to mislead. Why can't this guy be on my radio instaed of those pansies at NPR?
  • How many kinds of lawyers are there?
  • Well you got your civil, and your criminal . . . and then over here, see, you've got your favoritism. /Raising_Arizona
  • Attorney General Alberto Gonzales dismissed criticism of the National Security Agency's domestic spying program Tuesday, saying Congress was aware of its scope and approved it "under the authorization to use military force" against terrorism. military force eh?
  • Oh Canada! Indeed, access to subscriber information without a warrant is needed because "subscriber information is often required at the beginning of an investigation or for general policing duties. In these circumstances, the police may not be able to get a warrant given the little information available to them, and the time it would take in order to gather the necessary information for a warrant, where it is possible, can be critical to an investigation." In other words, authorities don't have enough evidence to justify obtaining a warrant, to the law is being changed to make it easier.
  • authorities don't have enough evidence to justify obtaining a warrant Dude, NOTHING justifies Warrant. Remember "She's my cherry pie - cool drink of water, such a sweet surprise" - ? Give me a fucking break, hairspray.
  • Ha!
  • Beautiful, just beautiful.
  • I love it! Thanks again, homunculus, for another fabulous link. Now, if only Democrats would do the same when G.W. is talking, we'd really be rolling!
  • Well, if this is true, and frankly I'm too drunk to go research it, I'm comforted by the fact that a bunch of 15-year-old hackers will have thwarted this in about 3 hours after each piece of backdoor-enable software and hardware is released.
  • So we can only hope. It's a constant struggle isn't it. V-chip, Clipper . . ship . . encryption thingy. It's like the forces of the right-wing evil won't quit.
  • I should have mentioned this days ago. I heard on a left radio station a snippet of one of Bush's recent press conferences. The reporter asked if Bush circumvented the FISA law when authorizing his program, and of course the answer from Bush was no. Then he said: "I asked my advisors if I could put this program in place while complying with the current law, and they said no." BUSH ADMITTED HIS PROGRAM IS ILLEGAL. Can we PLEASE impeach this asshole now?!
  • Tell me something I don't know.
  • Good one, homunculus.
  • Yes, especially when you consider the source: Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. Not just another liberal shooting his mouth off.
  • Polls Show Many Americans are Simply Dumber Than Bush A Eebudda-ebbudda-ebbudda-Ee - That's All Folks!
  • I can't count the number of times I've head something along the lines of, "I don't care who's listening to my phone calls; I haven't done anything wrong, I've got nothing to hide." Joe McCarthy would be proud.
  • And wiretapped.
  • beat ya to it, h-dogg!
  • Last night I watched the News Hour on public TV (can't remember the anchor's name, dammit), and during that hour, about 15 minutes was spent on the hearings regarding Bush's eavesdropping/wiretapping program. The first thing I noticed was that the Attorney General would not answer a yes/no question with a yes or no. The second thing I noticed was that he kept not answering questions and instead talking about how it's the President's duty to protect America from attack. He just kept saying that over and over, that we must protect America, that we must do whatever necessary to protect America, that the President has the authority under the Constitution to protect America. That's how they win, that's how they get what they want. They keep correlating their dirty schemes and illegal activities with protecting America, and they say it so convincingly and so often that people are fooled into believing it.
  • That's how i heard it reported too, minda25. Tap dancing and not even under oath. WTF. Jim Lehrer (news anchor) you mean?
  • Wire-Tap dancing. When I was a kid my Dad had me convinced that the "Tap Room" was where he went to do his tap dancing.