October 23, 2005

• Nooooo. Tom Flocco is a tinfoil hatter. He also recently claimed that Barbara Olson was still alive and had been arrested at the "Polish-Austrian" border, in possession of millions of fake Italian Lira. There is no Polish-Austrian border and the Lira hasn't been negotiable currency since 2001.
• "Intelligence sources added that Bush tried to delay publicity about his attempt to fire Fitzgerald and quash the indictments this afternoon by ordering a diversion regarding a “Capitol Hill police attempt to disrupt a suspicious package in a car near the U.S. Capitol.”" It sure sounded like bullshit to me when I saw it on the news...
• Chyren: So there WASN'T any Indictments?
• Isn't it Saturday in the US? When have you heard of prosecutors handing down indictments on a weekend? It'll be next week. Nobody knows what Fitzgerald is going to do, his investigation has been almost totally leak-proof. Whatever you may surmise from *reliable* political sources, Flocco is a nutcase and not worthy of any attention. I fully expect indictments, but not fucking 22! ha ha ha! That's insane.
• Well, Livewire, there WASN'T any indictments that anyone can tell from any independent source. Doesn/t mean it didn't happen, but think, when the Saturday Night Massacre of Cox happened, it was all over the news and the investigator talked about his firing and why. Where is Fitzgerald's statement?
• Yeah, Fitzgerald's got a website, now, so that's where the statements will be posted. I mean, I'm supposed to be the Monkeyfilter tinfoil hatter; I believe in fuckin' UFOs for Christ's sake and read the Tarot! So if I say someone sounds like a loony-tune that's gotta be.. pretty bad. :D
• Still doesn't sound good for Bush admin.
• Here are the best sites to get your breaking Plamegate info: firedoglake, Daily Kos and Eschaton. These sites are where you will get the lowdown (from a liberal perspective, natch) on any breaking news on Fitzmas, and particularly with Kos you have a lot of big brains ready to weigh in on any stuff to give you balance. I don't believe anything til I see it on Google News, Kos and Rawstory.
• So if I say someone sounds like a loony-tune that's gotta be.. pretty bad *Points finger at Tom Flocco* "it was him; not me!"
• It's not good, he's fucked. Even if Bush only loses Rove and Libby, he's screwed. He can't think for himself, look at the Miers nomination. The guy is a fucking moron. The Katrina clusterfuck happened mainly because Rove was in hospital with kidney stones or some shit and Bush had to handle the situation himself. His own party are starting to smell blood in the water. Schadenfreude cocktails for everyone!
• It's cool, Livewire, I was sucked in to Flocco some weeks back when he first started wittering on about the 22 indictments. I had to do a bit of research to learn he was not reliable, then the Barbara Olson story came out and it became rather more obvious. Sherman Skolnick has also been saying some stuff to back up Flocco, but they're both stopped-clocks.
• Chyren is correct in that Tom Flocco appears to have a history of making wild accusations which don't live up to reality, as a brief wander around his site will show. Since Flocco doesn't present any evidence but instead we are to just trust him, this is a case where Argumentum ad Hominem is not a fallacy -- it is correctly used. As for proving beyond a shadow of doubt that there weren't indictments, it is nearly impossible to prove a negative in most cases which is why Flocco needs to provide evidence to support his positive claim. Unless or until he does so then I have to agree with Chryen that Flocco appears to be a tin-foil-hatter.
• Don't get me wrongo: I would LOVE to see it happen. I mean, fuck, I'd be celebrating for weeks. If Bush tries to fire Fitz, he'll be in deep shit. There's no real excuse for him to do so and he's said very good things about him up until now. With situation as is, the best thing he can do is wait it out and jettison the indictees. You can guarantee that the indictments won't touch Bush, the most you will see, if we are very lucky, is Cheney as unindicted co-conspirator.
• Unless or until he does so then I have to agree with Chryen that Flocco appears to be a tin-foil-hatter. I too, clearly agree with Chyren.
• I also agree with Chyren that I'd love to see it happen. I'd like one of those posters you see in Moulder's office on the X-Files: "I Want to Believe" but with a fuzzy and tilted picture of the PNAC guys behind bars. Oh yes I do, but I'm a dreamer so I'm told.
• OOoooh, and I just saw that Livewire posted this at the blue as well. Oof. They were nasty. Don't take it hard, Livewire, I still read Jeff Rense every day! Honestly, at this stage no one can blame you for believing Flocco.. we all want to see Bush go down in flames, reaaaaaaaal bad.
• Watch this Space
• (( Some bananas are in order for Chyren and everyone else in this thread who managed to poiht out to LivewireConfusion the error of his ways without behaving like complete assholes. Unlike some people on a certain Blue website I could name.
• Which Blue? Oh, I see, this one. (chip chip chippin awayyyyyyyyyyyyy) (ugh)
• Aiiiiiyeeeee...I clicked Argh, I clicked. I'm now bleeding from the ears and eyes.
• What we shoulda teared him a new one for is posting twice in one day.
• Perhaps the number '22' (indictments) has some connection to the 22% (give or take) of the TexASS population at present languishing in prisons of that state. Must be the highest prison population per capita in the known universe. I'm (reliably) informed that certain towns in other US states where TexASS denizens are employed (mining and oil)have prison populations of Texans in greater numbers than the locals. Evidently the "freedom" goes to their heads.
• No no no, Algol VII has 72% of their population behind bars. Or more accurately, in jars, because they are a kind of sentient squid.
• It's Sunday morning here in the US and there is nothing about this on the news wires. You'd think something like the president being indicted might merit a mention....
• Also, I dont believe a sitting president can actually be indicted or charged with a crime- he can only be impeached. He CAN however, be sued civilly, based on an idiotic precedent set in the Clinton years. I've been waiting for that one to come back and bite Bush...
• John Dean isn't holding his breath.
• It isn't true?! I don't think I've ever been so disappointed in my life. *cries*
• from the John Dean link: During Watergate, the Watergate Special Prosecutor did considerable research on whether or not a sitting president could be indicted. While the law is not black letter, the consensus of considered opinion is that he cannot.
• "I dont believe a sitting president can actually be indicted or charged with a crime..." It's a grey area. I mean, let me ask you this, if a sitting President was caught red handed in a murder, could he not be charged? I think the issue is the seriousness of the crime. Either way, Bush isn't getting indicted, take that to the bank. His people will shield him from anything, whether he was involved or not. And then he will pardon them. :) And then the GOP will get the heat for that. However, depending on how the media spins it, since the Dems are so emasculated, it may or may not mean anything in the long run. Even so, Bush is lamed. Look for the rest of the Republican party to distance themselves from him. While John Dean may have more experience than most, he knows no more than we do. Fitzgerald, it has been said, has played his cards so close to his chest they are in his undies. Nobody knows what will happen. Wurmser and these other aids 'cooperating' with the investigation does not bode well for the administration, I have to say. Fitz bitch slapped Judy Judy Judy pretty good. Har har! Queen of all Iraq. Caught her in a lie and she coughed up those notes. Woot. Fitz is shit hot. If there is anything indictable, he will indict. It's very exciting, but I aint gettin' my hopes too high.
• This would be a nice start
• MoFi kicks ass.
• Well obviously it was a mistake. At least I have given you the opportunity to spend the next 10 hours flaming me... thus giving your life purpose again, if only for a little while. cockfilter. posted by Livewire Confusion at 6:44 AM PST on October 23 Metafilter /applauds
• Boy, that FPP woke me up as my coffee has never done! I haven't been that surprised or excited in a while. I figured it was just too good to be true. Frankly, I am not sure that this will end up amounting to much. Fitz will be fairly toned down in his final analysis, I think (unfortunately). I just can't get my hopes up, for I will be severely disappointed.
• BTW, anyone have the link to the Mefi FPP of this?
• Here's the link to what's apparently the worst abuse of the metafilter front page in the history of the internet. /still five bucks richer than those sorry cocks.
• Heheh
• Oh, and you totally shouldn't post twice in one day. This is the worst abuse of the mofi front page in the history of the internet.
• "Or more accurately, in jars, because they are a kind of sentient squid." (Chyren) Not so far off an apt description of the G(L)OP crew then, possibly minus the word "sentient?" One wonders though, if indictments do fly like confetti, how many of Bush's people will be left able to (effectively) shield him? Whatever evolves, it promises to be riveting stuff.
• You guys should totally get the MeFi RSS feed. I have it on my "My Yahoo" page and it keeps deleted threads on there. oh and Chy re: president being indicted, if the president was to murder someone, I think he would probably be impeached, THEN charged with the crime.
• And it seems Metatalk has taken a bold leap into a Phillip K. Dick-style future, and they're now pre-emptively getting their panties in a bunch over bad posts that haven't happened yet.
• Doesn't seem like a bad MeTa thread to me. MeFi already has too many amberglow-style news/agenda posts. News of indictments will make it much worse, maybe even worse than the weeks after Katrina, unless something is done to curtail them.
• I dunno, I just read MeTa for the comedy. To me the whole idea of worrying about stuff "cluttering up the frontpage" is absurd on any website. As if people need to spend hours of hard labor firing up some kind of steam engine to scroll past stuff they dont want to read.
• /still five bucks richer than those sorry cocks. These cocks?
• Those are more like cocklets.
• Whenever I read Metafilter, I spontaneously get the smell of rubber in my nose, like that which emanates from those rubber gloves you wear to do the dishes or clean up the dog shit and which never leaves your hands for a bit, or from the rubber johnny that used to be on the cock you are sucking.. (er.. )
• There is no Polish-Austrian border and the Lira hasn't been negotiable currency since 2001. And I suppose you want us to think those two things are unrelated, don't you, Mister "Chyren"? Oh, and down with MeFi! (Except for wonderful AskMe, which makes every soul crushing day of my life a little easier to endure, and MetaTalk, which is just the best source of "No, they can't really be arguing over something that pointless"-style comedy EVAR! And that Metafilter page is pretty good sometimes, too. But it's no box of Special K! Mwah!)
• Yeah so here's what happened. My girlfriend sent me the link, I posted it. It was quasi-news, the guy just took way too many liberties with the story and inferred a bunch of crap. I was taken in. Realized it a bit too late. As far this multiple post thing... I don't personally consider MonkeyFilter and MetaFilter to be linked. Yeah, I know the history of it and all but I feel they are only related in the regards that they are both weblogs. I felt like the link I had got was THAT important. My bad. This has taught me that MetaFilter people suck and MonkeyFilter people rule. it has also taught me that some people on Metafilter (the ones who are ruining it) are nasty little automaton fascists with allot of time on their hands and who take the site WAY TO personally. I can't read a post without seeing shit like "not fpp material" or "newsfilter". Metafilter has turned into asshat land, and it can't ALL be newbies. I think Matt needs an asshat rule. You act like an asshat, you get banned. What defines an asshat? Well snide attention whore remarks are one example. Obviously someone disagreeing with someone else isn't an asshat. If his/her remarks are formed opinions that bring points to discuss, it's cool. let me break it down: MeFite: "Kirk Cameron runs for President!" asshat: "hey fuck you! Not FPP!" non asshat: "No way this is true. I have found links to contrary. This is my opposing view point in a concise and sane matter" So someone's opinion isn't the problem it's how they put it out there. Another example when the pizza guy forgets my breadsticks I don't yell "NOT A FRONT PAGE POST, DICK!" He'd kick my ass; and rightly so. The MetaFilter "community" is permitting this behavior. I disagree with it so I am pulling out. I emailed Matt and asked him to delete my account. I want nothing to do with MetaFilter ever again. It's problems at this point far out weigh it's redeemable qualities. As for you guys. Sorry about the bogus post. Again, it was not my intention to get everyone's hopes up only to dash them on the rocks. The next time any of you makes a bonehead post you can bet I won't be there acting like an asshat.
• Dude, you could post a good FPP and your still gonna get some kind of shit for it. Mefi has it's occasional uses, I wouldn't delete my account over it. Just develop a thicker skin and tell them 'your welcome' for giving them a chance to blow a gasket. Their just mad 'cause the news was so exciting and then................letdown.
• As far this multiple post thing... I don't personally consider MonkeyFilter and MetaFilter to be linked. Yeah, I know the history of it and all but I feel they are only related in the regards that they are both weblogs. I felt like the link I had got was THAT important. My bad. Nah, there's no rule, written or unwritten, against posting the same thing on both sites. In fact, people do it all the time. My comment above was in regards to your two MoFi posts on the same day: this one and the suicide girls one. There is a rule against that, and since you broke it you will be banned for life. But, you know, in a nice monkeyfilter way as opposed to a mean nasty metafilter way.
• This has taught me that MetaFilter people suck *cries*
• This has taught me that MetaFilter people suck bwahahahahahahahaha
• Allow me to elaborate. I'm gonna do it anyway. You make a very foolish mistake...a mistake that a little checking could and should have averted. MeFi is not all that harsh in their reaction yet you refuse to accept responsibility and instead blame them for a bit of light ribbing about your fuckup. Now for the harsher way to put it: Doesn't it hurt to have the sun rise and set from your asshole??
• Well, before we get into a big dicksuckathon here about how much 'nicer' we are, I'll point out for the record that we have certainly had our dark days, our epic flameouts and our pile-ons. There are some here who relish an impending bannination so much you can practically hear the clang of the pitchforks and the whump of igniting torches. Yes, I've been guilty of it too. And though I never have given MeFi my five bucks and probably never will, I'll say that AskMe alone is more than worth that price -- I've seen shitting on Curious George threads that would not have occurred in the green -- and Teh Howie is practically worthy of sainthood for what he puts up with, keeping that place running while rarely losing his cool. I agree that this place is generally friendlier and better-policed than the blue or the grey, and damn near everytime I go over there I'm reminded why I never left our place for theirs, but I feel we should give the devil his due: we ain't all saints, and they ain't all sinners. On preview: well, QED.
• Hey Stirfry, YO MAMA!
• I rather like the whump of igniting torches. Makes me feel comfy and warm. It would be neat if lights made that sound when you turned them on.
• Hey Nickdanger, the "s" is lowercase. And...you bet! Mia Mamma!
• and LivewireConfusion, I don't mean to be too harsh on you but when you become all unglued over a touch of good humored criticism over a truly stupendous piece of stupidity, I have to question what palnet you are really from. Not that I'm a planeticist, just that enquiring minds want to know.
• palnets are in fact planets
• No their not ASSAHT!!
• Wondering how on Earth I could possibly have not heard about such an incredible thing, I figured it must have happended while I was driving home. All excited, I clicked on the link , went HOLY CRAP!!, started reading it, and immediately thought "NO FRIKKEN WAY". I then tried to decide if it was a crude attempt at parody of some sort, but quickly Googled news, and found out that it was a complete flaming pile of utter bullshit. Some frikken moron just made up a buch of crap, for reasons that elude me. It wasn't THAT hard to figure out, it probably took me less than minute, and I'm not all that bright. It's only NEWS if it actually happened, Livewire.
• As a matter of fact, palnets are not planets. And I have found a link to the contrary. This is my opposing view point in a concise and sane matter: Palnets are not planets. non asshat
• Monkeyfilter: Big Dicksuckathon er. /has nothing wrong with a big dicksuckaton.
• assahts are in fact assthas um forry
• Which Blue? Oh, I see, this one. (chip chip chippin awayyyyyyyyyyyyy) (ugh) Thanks for that bit of terror to start my morning. That's going to be stuck on repeat in my head all day now.
• It was the "TomFlocco.com exclusive" bit that told me it was a crazy man's ranting. As much as I, too, wanted it to be true. Like this man out of nowhere is somehow going to get an exclusive that every other news source on the planet somehow missed out on. But thanks for the lively debate, Livewire. I say it's good in that at least you got us all salivating for blood :) I am not an asshat, but a hatass.
• So if I say someone sounds like a loony-tune that's gotta be.. pretty bad. Not really, if yer a nut then how is your opinion valid? That's like two wrongs making right... But yer not a nut, there are UFO's... And David Icke was right... Seriously tho, is it just me or does anyone else think David Icke is just a furry who did way too much acid?
• Well, to me, there is no state of being 'right' there are just degrees of wrongness. David Icke.. you know what, I still can't figure that guy out, whether he really believes that shit or he's just a really good con. I suspect he went a bit far with the whole lizard people shit and then couldn't come back from the precipice; couldn't admit that maybe he was wrong about the Queen being a baby eating reptoid, and had to run with it. Another measure of loony-ville is Richard Hoagland, the Mars face guy. He's (apparently) genuinely smart enough to know that most of the crap he spews is bullshit, he has to be called Hoaxland.
• I've been doing some research and apparently a sitting President can be indicted, according to arch conservative lawyer Mark Levin of the Landmark Legal Foundation. I'll try and find a link for it later. Too long to summarise, but a particular point is: "...the language in Article I, Section 3 [of the Constitution] makes clear that impeachment is not an exclusive remedy. A president is still subject to criminal prosecution, if warranted. He can be impeached and removed from office, but this is a limited remedy. Given this limitation, the Founding Fathers wanted to make clear that impeachment would not immunize a president and bar subsequent criminal prosecution. Obviously, this concern only arises in cases where impeachment precedes criminal prosecution. Therefore, if criminal prosecution precedes impeachment, it is not an issue. ...The possibility of impeachment does not immunize the president from criminal prosecution. He remains, at all times, a citizen of the United States who is answerable to the law."
• MonkeyFilter: You can practically hear the clang of the pitchforks and the whump of igniting torches. LET THE TAGLINES BEGIN!!!